Discussion:
Preps help in evacuating from Summit Fire Re: Topic of week: Price of gasoline (or petrol)
(too old to reply)
Tim May
2008-05-25 19:17:35 UTC
Permalink
Now what? On a more mundane level, how do you cope with the price of road
fuel?
A survivalist would *always* have at least $100 ($5 bills?) stashed
Realistically, you should probably have enough cash to cover a month
or 2 worth of living expenses (which is much more than $100), and your
savings account should have 6 months or so worth of expenses.
Your bugout bag should have a chunk of cash as well -- if you planned
for 3-days, and you wanted to stay in a hotel/motel for 3 days, what
would it cost? Most emergencies are not going to be "running through
the woods" type escapes, but moving out of danger of a natural
disaster.
I just finished a Thursday-Saturday "micro-bugout."

No, not a hike into the hills. And not an "exercise."

Rather, I left because of a wildfire in my area. The so-called "Summit
Fire" in the Santa Cruz Mountains, specifically, near Corralitos, where
I live. The fires began Thursday in the early a.m., driven by 40-50 mph
winds.

Smoke was very heavy over my house, winds were high, my electricity was
out, so I packed up and headed for a friend's house in Sunnyvale, near
San Jose. As it turned out, I could've stayed without problems. Power
was restored later that day, and the flames never got closer than a few
miles away. (The smoke plumes are still visible, as the fires have not
been halted, but the fires are in steep, uninhabited canyons.)

But, of course, I did not _know_ that I could've stayed, not until
retrospectively. I left early to minimize any later "race to the exit"
panic, any trees being downed to block my way, etc. (I debated throwing
a chain saw in my vehicle, but only had one road to negotiate where
downed trees might be an issue.)

Many things were already ready to go, but I packed up several more
crates and bags (Ikea's plastic tote bags are very strong and work very
well...a couple of bucks each at Ikea--I have about 20 of them).

Took valuables out of my fire-insulated gun safe (details not given
here), disk drives, DVDs, photo albums (even though already scanned and
on disk), several guns, and some money in various forms (again, details
not given).

In my "ready pack" was a lightweight sleeping bag (Snugpack), spare
clothing, fleece jackets, and other minor camping supplies. I didn't
expect to need this, but took it anyway.

Money-wise, my credit card was available, as well as cash.

(Very, very few emergencies--and none in the U.S. since the advent of
credit cards several decades ago--will make the credit processing
network impossible to use. Many are already satellite-based, and stores
have emergency power sources. Or they can process cards manually, with
the old-fashioned card imprint systems. I'm not arguing against cash,
or encouraging abuse of credit cards, just noting the obvious reality
of the situation. In short, it is virtually inconceivable that a
disaster would completely cut-off all use of credit cards. Every
survival-oriented person should have them as just as extra source of
funds.)

"Survivalists" tend to have pre-considered the need to leave. Myself,
I've been in _three_ fairly big disasters:

-- a volcano : Mt. St. Helens, in May 1980. I was 15 miles west of
Portland, so not in the major ash plume. But a couple of inches of ash
were in my yard, car engines were at risk of becoming clogged, and our
wafer fabrication plant was shut down for a while. I had no need to
evacuate, but many in the surrounding states had to.

-- an earthquake : Loma Prieta quake of October 1989. Epicentered less
than 20 miles from my home near Santa Cruz. Major shaking of my house,
but only internal damage (smashed bookcases, all bookcases knocked
over, some electronics trashed). I was out of power for several days,
so emergency radios, light sources, and cooking options were useful.
Many were utterly unprepared and stood in long lines just to get
batteries for flashlights.

(I've also been in several other less significant quakes, including the
1971 Los Angeles quake.)

-- a wildfire : this Summit Fire.

(Tsunamis are not a concern, due to my distance from the sea, about 7
miles. Tornadoes and cyclones are also not a concern.)

This was a very minor bugout, done without any sense of panic and with
a good deal of comfort. I just stayed with some friends and watched the
spectacle unfold on television. Had it been worse, or done with more
panic, preps still would've helped (having a packed bag, having cash on
hand, having stuff already in my vehicle, etc.)

Preparation, mentally as well as having a ready bag, helps.


--Tim May
Jeannie
2008-05-25 23:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Glad you and your home are safe, Tim, and thanks for the prep advice/
info.

Jeannie
Nicholas
2008-05-25 23:52:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 25 May 2008 16:23:13 -0700 (PDT), Jeannie
Post by Jeannie
Glad you and your home are safe, Tim, and thanks for the prep advice/
info.
Jeannie
Tim might not be out of the woods yet.

===============================================================
Summit fire jumps line, burning in two counties
Jennifer Squires - Sentinel staff writer
Article Launched: 05/25/2008 01:31:19 AM PDT


CORRALITOS -- The Summit Fire turned into itself Saturday and was
burning dense chaparral in steep ravines, but continued to threaten
almost 600 structures.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger declared a state of emergency in Santa
Clara County on Saturday after 50 homes there were evacuated when
gusting winds pushed the fire toward the historic community of Sveadal
late Friday.

The blaze, which started in an empty lot near Summit Road early
Thursday, was 35 percent contained late Saturday after consuming more
than 3,840 acres in Santa Cruz and Santa Clara counties. Twenty homes
and 11 outbuildings had been destroyed as of Saturday night.

Cal Fire officials said they don't know how long it will take to
contain the fire.

"The fire's going to continue to be a slow, fuel-driven fire," Cal
Fire Division Chief Dennis Mathisen said.

The flames moved into 10- and 100-hour fuels Saturday -- bushes, trees
and logs that could smolder and remain hot for days, according to Cal
Fire Capt. Brad Hudson out of Nevada County.

"This was a wind-driven fire, but it's gotten into the heavier fuels,"
said Hudson, who was sitting with two other firefighters on a
bulldozed fire line on the west side of Summit Road Saturday
afternoon. They watched flames lick the manzanitas but had been told
to let it burn unless the winds whipped flames and embers across the
road.

Almost 3,100 fire personnel were assigned to blaze Saturday night;
four have suffered minor injuries battling the fire, Mathisen said.

Fire officials said the steep terrain, thick underbrush and overcast
weather were the biggest challenges Saturday, the third day of the
firefight. Many of the areas charred by the Summit Fire hadn't burned
for at least 60 years.

"We're not out of the woods," Mathisen said. "We've got very heavy
fuels in the area that is burning."

The low marine layer kept temperatures cool -- a relief for
firefighters who had been working in hot sun Thursday -- but it was
not sufficient to prevent ignition of the bone dry chaparral in the
Santa Cruz Mountains. The morning fog also temporarily grounded
firefighting aircraft. Cal Fire uses planes and helicopters to scout
the fire and drop water and flame-retardant foam on the blaze.

"The weather looks like it's helping, but it's not," Hudson said.

There was a concern about thunderstorms, which bring strange wind
patterns and lightening strikes, but they didn't materialize Saturday
afternoon.

Fire crews worked until nightfall Saturday to build fire lines by hand
and with bulldozers, according to Mathisen. Firefighters were not
lighting backfires because the blaze had turned and was "kind of
backfiring itself," Mathisen said.

The fire Saturday burned close to where the Santa Clara County Croy
Fire burned 3,127 acres, 31 homes and 15 outbuildings in 2002.

Late Friday, overnight wind gusts of up to 40 mph in the mountains
fanned the flames and spurred the nighttime evacuation of about 50
homes in Sveadal, near Uvas Canyon County Park on the east side of the
fire. The threat to Santa Clara County homes led to the governor's
emergency declaration.

"I visited the Summit Fire Camp yesterday to thank the dedicated and
hard working firefighters who are aggressively battling this blaze and
to make sure they have every resource needed to fight this fire,"
Schwarzenegger said in a statement Saturday. "We are issuing another
proclamation for Santa Clara County, now that the fire has
unfortunately crossed the Santa Cruz County line, so both counties
will have all the resources necessary to continue combating the Summit
Fire. My administration is working closely with federal and local
officials and we will continue to mobilize and coordinate all
fire-fighting resources."

The governor issued an emergency proclamation on Thursday for Santa
Cruz County.

Residents perched along the 3,000-foot-high ridgeline of South Summit
Road, which Friday was under extreme threat, are breathing a sigh of
relief Saturday.

"It passed us by. The house is saved. Two trucks were at my house all
last night," said South Summit Road resident Kenneth Moore. On
Thursday, the fire burned along the west side of his home; on Friday,
it burned along the east side.

But by Saturday, the greatest risk had passed.

"It is dripping thick fog this morning, which is awesome," Moore said
Saturday.

Some cleanup was also under way Saturday. PG&E crews removed downed
powerlines from Ormsby Cutoff Road, a community near Summit Road that
was completely destroyed by the fire. Firefighters with chain saws and
pick-axes walked portions of Eureka Canyon Road to find snags that
could fall from the trees.

However, all mandatory evacuations remained in effect Saturday night
and sheriff's deputies made plans to keep extra officers and a command
post set up at the Corralitos Fire Station until at least Thursday,
according to Sgt. Fred Plageman. He said Cal Fire officials told the
Sheriff's Office flare-ups and spot fires could continue for weeks.

"We're kind of at a standoff [with the fire]. It's not getting worse
but it's not getting better," Plageman said.

Sheriff's deputies and California Highway Patrol officers manned
roadblocks around the fire. Evacuated residents who had ID were
allowed back in "for errands" during daylight hours Saturday, but
people were not allowed to stay.

Hazel Dell and Browns Valley roads were closed late Friday, largely to
ensure fire trucks and other equipment had room to maneuver, Plageman
said.

Cal Fire officials will hold a community meeting at the Corralitos
Community Church at 3 p.m. this afternoon to answer residents'
questions about the Summit Fire. Representatives from the Santa Cruz
County chapter of the American Red Cross and the Sheriff's Office are
also expected to attend. The church is at 26 Browns Valley Road.

Also, the 49th annual Lumberjack Breakfast set for this morning has
been postponed.

"[Organizers] felt that ... it would take away focus from what needs
to happen," Plageman said.

The event will be Sunday, June 1. The breakfast, which is a fundraiser
for the Corralitos Little League team, will also be a collection site
for donations to help fire victims.

"They're hoping that it's even more successful," Plageman said.
Contact Jennifer Squires at 429-2449 or
***@santacruzsentinel.com.
Emergency contact information


Evacuation information: Evacuation facilities set up at Santa Cruz
County Fairgrounds, 2601 E. Lake Ave., Watsonville. For evacuation
assistance call 458-7195.
Red Cross: Staging at Santa Cruz County Fairgrounds, 2601 E. Lake
Ave., Watsonville.
Volunteer: Volunteer Centers of Santa Cruz County, call 427-5070.
Animal Services: Santa Cruz Animal Services helping with large animal
evacuations. For information, call 454-7303.
Summit Fire

at a glance

ACRES BURNED: 3,840.

CONTAINED: 35 percent, as of 7 p.m. Saturday.

STRUCTURES DESTROYED: At least 20 residences and 18 outbuildings.

THREATENED: 550 residential; 20 outbuildings.

COST to Fight Fire: $3.2 million

INJURIES: 4 minor sprains and strains to firefighters.

FIREFIGHTERS: 3,089.

EQUIPMENT: 293 engines, two air tankers, 13 helicopters, 36 bulldozers
and 47 water tenders.

FIRE STARTED: In an empty lot in the woods along Summit Road, shortly
before Maymen's Flat, at mile marker 7.53. The cause is under
investigation.

MANDATORY EVACUATIONS: 400 residences were evacuated at Lower
Highland, Buzzard Lagoon, Vaca del Sol, Upper Browns Valley and
Avocado, Hazel Dell, Redwood Road/Browns Valley Road and the Santa
Clara County community of Sveadal and McPhee Road. All evacuations
remain in effect. Another 1,500 residences were encouraged to
evacuate.
Tim May
2008-05-26 03:16:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicholas
On Sun, 25 May 2008 16:23:13 -0700 (PDT), Jeannie
Post by Jeannie
Glad you and your home are safe, Tim, and thanks for the prep advice/
info.
Jeannie
Tim might not be out of the woods yet.
===============================================================
Summit fire jumps line, burning in two counties
Jennifer Squires - Sentinel staff writer
Article Launched: 05/25/2008 01:31:19 AM PDT
Look, I'm actually _here_. I can see from my office window the areas
that are currently burning. They are up in an area called Gamecock
Canyon.

The "burning in two counties" news is a day old, that the winds shifted
and flames are now in _Santa Clara_ County, the county north of Santa
Cruz County. In other words, not in my direction.

The greatest "undetermined risk" to me and my area was on Thursday,
when the winds were gusting up to 50 mph and the direction of the
flames was largely unknown.

Today, and yesterday, winds are nearly nonexistent, smoke plumes are
vertical, and there is virtually zero chance of embers being carried
miles to new regions.
Post by Nicholas
CORRALITOS -- The Summit Fire turned into itself Saturday and was
burning dense chaparral in steep ravines, but continued to threaten
almost 600 structures.
The number of houses lost is about 20. In other words, this is NOT a
big fire by recent standards (such as where 1400 houses were lost in
less than a day in the Oakland and Berkeley hills, or hundreds of homes
lost in a few hours in San Diego, etc.).
Post by Nicholas
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger declared a state of emergency in Santa
Clara County on Saturday after 50 homes there were evacuated when
gusting winds pushed the fire toward the historic community of Sveadal
late Friday.
etc.

(This new fire area, in Santa Clara County, is over the main mountain
ridge from me. It was involved in the Kroy Fire of several years ago.
Nothing particularly major here.)



--Tim May
d***@yahoo.com
2008-05-26 02:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
Now what? On a more mundane level, how do you cope with the price of road
fuel?
A survivalist would *always* have at least $100  ($5 bills?) stashed
Realistically, you should probably have enough cash to cover a month
or 2 worth of living expenses (which is much more than $100), and your
savings account should have 6 months or so worth of expenses.
Your bugout bag should have a chunk of cash as well -- if you planned
for 3-days, and you wanted to stay in a hotel/motel for 3 days, what
would it cost?  Most emergencies are not going to be "running through
the woods" type escapes, but moving out of danger of a natural
disaster.
Money-wise, my credit card was available, as well as cash.
This was a very minor bugout, done without any sense of panic and with
a good deal of comfort. I just stayed with some friends and watched the
spectacle unfold on television. Had it been worse, or done with more
panic, preps still would've helped (having a packed bag, having cash on
hand, having stuff already in my vehicle, etc.)
Preparation, mentally as well as having a ready bag, helps.
--Tim May
It's much easier to impose on friends when you have money instead of
when you don't. You can buy them dinners, pizza, gourmet stuff,
movies, bowling, great america, .... Me? All I'd have to offer is
work exchange that most homeowners don't want or need.
Tim May
2008-05-26 03:23:58 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Tim May
This was a very minor bugout, done without any sense of panic and with
a good deal of comfort. I just stayed with some friends and watched the
spectacle unfold on television. Had it been worse, or done with more
panic, preps still would've helped (having a packed bag, having cash on
hand, having stuff already in my vehicle, etc.)
Preparation, mentally as well as having a ready bag, helps.
--Tim May
It's much easier to impose on friends when you have money instead of
when you don't. You can buy them dinners, pizza, gourmet stuff,
movies, bowling, great america, .... Me? All I'd have to offer is
work exchange that most homeowners don't want or need.
Then you ought to get to work and earn some money.

Yes, I bought my friend some dinners, including a burger pigout for him
and his son at St. John's (Sunnyvale/Santa Clara border) yesterday,
just before I left for home. He protested each time, but I pointed out
that this was a much better deal than staying at a hotel someplace.

But my friend offered his place, as did a bunch of my friends
(including a former girlfriend I haven't been in touch with since
1999), not because I could "buy" his hospitality, but for other reasons
(whatever they may be).

I've offered places to stay for friends of mine. Not long-term, just
for a few nights. Even those who are by no means wealthy.

Your mistake is in assuming friends are bought with money.


--Tim May
d***@yahoo.com
2008-05-26 04:11:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
In article
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Tim May
This was a very minor bugout, done without any sense of panic and with
a good deal of comfort. I just stayed with some friends and watched the
spectacle unfold on television. Had it been worse, or done with more
panic, preps still would've helped (having a packed bag, having cash on
hand, having stuff already in my vehicle, etc.)
Preparation, mentally as well as having a ready bag, helps.
--Tim May
It's much easier to impose on friends when you have money instead of
when you don't.  You can buy them dinners, pizza, gourmet stuff,
movies, bowling, great america, .... Me?  All I'd have to offer is
work exchange that most homeowners don't want or need.
Then you ought to get to work and earn some money.
Yes, I bought my friend some dinners, including a burger pigout for him
and his son at St. John's (Sunnyvale/Santa Clara border) yesterday,
just before I left for home. He protested each time, but I pointed out
that this was a much better deal than staying at a hotel someplace.
But my friend offered his place, as did a bunch of my friends
(including a former girlfriend I haven't been in touch with since
1999), not because I could "buy" his hospitality, but for other reasons
(whatever they may be).
I've offered places to stay for friends of mine. Not long-term, just
for a few nights. Even those who are by no means wealthy.
Your mistake is in assuming friends are bought with money.
--Tim May
Wrong. Since you have wealth, they think of friendship with you as an
investment. I was guilty of this too, sorry. They may be wealthy
themselves, but nobody's life and riches are cast in stone. There's
always that element of uncertainty.
Veronique
2008-05-26 03:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
It's much easier to impose on friends when you have money instead of
when you don't. You can buy them dinners, pizza, gourmet stuff,
movies, bowling, great america, .... Me? All I'd have to offer is
work exchange that most homeowners don't want or need.
Oh bullshit. I've "imposed" on friends when I've been down to seeds
and stems, with nothing but my scintillating personality to repay them
at the time. Of course, I've taken care to BE a friend to my friends,
whether they are currently flush or not. What goes round comes round.
I know any number of people who, if they showed up on my doorstep
fleeing a fire, I'd take in in a heartbeat. And I have confidence that
were the tables turned, I've have a choice of places to go. If you
think friends require "great america and gourmet stuff" then maybe you
need new friends.


V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
d***@yahoo.com
2008-05-26 04:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Veronique
Post by d***@yahoo.com
It's much easier to impose on friends when you have money instead of
when you don't.  You can buy them dinners, pizza, gourmet stuff,
movies, bowling, great america, .... Me?  All I'd have to offer is
work exchange that most homeowners don't want or need.
Oh bullshit. I've "imposed" on friends when I've been down to seeds
and stems, with nothing but my scintillating personality to repay them
at the time. Of course, I've taken care to BE a friend to my friends,
whether they are currently flush or not. What goes round comes round.
I know any number of people who, if they showed up on my doorstep
fleeing a fire, I'd take in in a heartbeat. And I have confidence that
were the tables turned, I've have a choice of places to go. If you
think friends require "great america and gourmet stuff" then maybe you
need new friends.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Been there. Next time read the posting before you respond.
Tim May
2008-05-26 04:59:58 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Veronique
Post by d***@yahoo.com
It's much easier to impose on friends when you have money instead of
when you don't.  You can buy them dinners, pizza, gourmet stuff,
movies, bowling, great america, .... Me?  All I'd have to offer is
work exchange that most homeowners don't want or need.
Oh bullshit. I've "imposed" on friends when I've been down to seeds
and stems, with nothing but my scintillating personality to repay them
at the time. Of course, I've taken care to BE a friend to my friends,
whether they are currently flush or not. What goes round comes round.
I know any number of people who, if they showed up on my doorstep
fleeing a fire, I'd take in in a heartbeat. And I have confidence that
were the tables turned, I've have a choice of places to go. If you
think friends require "great america and gourmet stuff" then maybe you
need new friends.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Been there. Next time read the posting before you respond.
You're delusional if you actually think that the various offers of aid
I received were based on some kind of quid pro quo amongst rich people.


Yes, I'm wealthy. As are most of my friends. (Seems that working for a
living for a while generally produces wealth.)

Your own theories tell the story of why you are living in a cardboard
box and begging in front of Whole Foods in Palo Alto.


--Tim May
d***@yahoo.com
2008-05-26 06:14:47 UTC
Permalink
Wrong. Since you have wealth, they think of friendship with you as an
investment. I was guilty of this too, sorry. They may be wealthy
themselves, but nobody's life and riches are cast in stone. There's
always that element of uncertainty.

-------------
Post by Veronique
Post by d***@yahoo.com
It's much easier to impose on friends when you have money instead of
when you don't. You can buy them dinners, pizza, gourmet stuff,
movies, bowling, great america, .... Me? All I'd have to offer is
work exchange that most homeowners don't want or need.
Oh bullshit. I've "imposed" on friends when I've been down to seeds
and stems, with nothing but my scintillating personality to repay them
at the time. Of course, I've taken care to BE a friend to my friends,
whether they are currently flush or not. What goes round comes round.
I know any number of people who, if they showed up on my doorstep
fleeing a fire, I'd take in in a heartbeat. And I have confidence that
were the tables turned, I've have a choice of places to go. If you
think friends require "great america and gourmet stuff" then maybe you
need new friends.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
I have friends because I personally enjoy friendship, or rather, when
you're stuck with a lemon make lemonade. Everyone is like this who is
capable of enjoying friendship.

What you need to understand is that everyone has their limits insofar
as what you can seek from them, friend or not friend..

For example, you and I have never met. The first thing I'd be curious
about is if I would want to go to bed with you. If not, no
"scintillating personality" on your part could change that.

Some years ago there was a fire across the street. The college
students had to leave the building in skimpy clothing at 3am. I was
the first to bring a blanket out to help cover a young lady who I had
previously wanted to screw. Was this friendship? No. Was it sexual
avarice? No. Would I ever feel she owed me sex in return? No. It was
my own 'sense' of decency only, a bit like a moral fetish. Unlike
myself, Scruggs does this kind of stuff for pay. Maybe this is where
you are confused.

--------
Post by Veronique
In article
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Post by Veronique
Post by d***@yahoo.com
It's much easier to impose on friends when you have money instead of
when you don't. You can buy them dinners, pizza, gourmet stuff,
movies, bowling, great america, .... Me? All I'd have to offer is
work exchange that most homeowners don't want or need.
Oh bullshit. I've "imposed" on friends when I've been down to seeds
and stems, with nothing but my scintillating personality to repay them
at the time. Of course, I've taken care to BE a friend to my friends,
whether they are currently flush or not. What goes round comes round.
I know any number of people who, if they showed up on my doorstep
fleeing a fire, I'd take in in a heartbeat. And I have confidence that
were the tables turned, I've have a choice of places to go. If you
think friends require "great america and gourmet stuff" then maybe you
need new friends.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Been there. Next time read the posting before you respond.
You're delusional if you actually think that the various offers of aid
I received were based on some kind of quid pro quo amongst rich people.
Yes, I'm wealthy. As are most of my friends. (Seems that working for a
living for a while generally produces wealth.)
Your own theories tell the story of why you are living in a cardboard
box and begging in front of Whole Foods in Palo Alto.
--Tim May
See, you got that all wrong too.
d***@yahoo.com
2008-05-26 06:42:54 UTC
Permalink
Wrong.  Since you have wealth, they think of friendship with you as an
snip

and dang, somehow that got pasted twice!
CanopyCo
2008-05-26 16:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
In article
Post by Veronique
Post by d***@yahoo.com
It's much easier to impose on friends when you have money instead of
when you don't.  You can buy them dinners, pizza, gourmet stuff,
movies, bowling, great america, .... Me?  All I'd have to offer is
work exchange that most homeowners don't want or need.
Oh bullshit. I've "imposed" on friends when I've been down to seeds
and stems, with nothing but my scintillating personality to repay them
at the time. Of course, I've taken care to BE a friend to my friends,
whether they are currently flush or not. What goes round comes round.
I know any number of people who, if they showed up on my doorstep
fleeing a fire, I'd take in in a heartbeat. And I have confidence that
were the tables turned, I've have a choice of places to go. If you
think friends require "great america and gourmet stuff" then maybe you
need new friends.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Been there.  Next time read the posting before you respond.
You're delusional if you actually think that the various offers of aid
I received were based on some kind of quid pro quo amongst rich people.
Yes, I'm wealthy. As are most of my friends. (Seems that working for a
living for a while generally produces wealth.)
Your own theories tell the story of why you are living in a cardboard
box and begging in front of Whole Foods in Palo Alto.
--Tim May
Your also a complete and total self centered bastard.
That is not the type of personality that makes friends instead of
buying them.

But then, people that buy there friends seldom realize that they are
in fact doing that.

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