Discussion:
Increased US Domestic Oil Drilling will not lower Oil Prices
(too old to reply)
Thomas Jigme Wheat
2011-06-14 17:07:02 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 9, 8:09 pm, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head
Again, I'm against subsidies, bailouts and the like. (You're the
corporate establishment talking head, you psychotic moron)
According to a 2009 study from the government's Energy Information
Administration,
But I just provided another link from our government....If your
beloved government is lying on this then why should anyone believe it
at all? And why should we believe it over the people that want to
drill for oil? (What, they're going to spend billions for nothing?)
Your link doesn't account for the cost of the oil extraction
Actually it does.
3 to 4.3 Billion Barrels of Technically Recoverable Oil Assessed in
North Dakota and Montana’s Bakken Formation—25 Times More Than 1995
Estimate—http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911
And this isn't the only report I can provide that shows we could be
doing massively more to make ourselves more energy independent.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
<Steve Hargreaves article, which didn't provide an actual link to the
actual report because it probably would have destroyed his argument,
is bs>
his latest stupid response archived here on usenet:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread/thread/96b8c6e0efc0315d/f9a60ec331d55737

Talking out of your ass again dipshit corporatist establishment
talking head
Proof you contradicted yourself, when you attempted to cite a report
in which you claimed it said more increased US domestic oil drilling
would lower oil prices.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/dc8b2e9536bd6643

From: Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head
<***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa,alt.politics.liberal
Subject: Re: Fact: Palin could make a billion gaffes, shit herself on
stage,snuff a little kid and still be a thousand times better than our
warmongering idiot-in-chief. (President Pay More only gets one term)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:09:54 -0700 (PDT)
Organization: http://groups.google.com

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/dc8b2e9536bd6643?dmode=source
And this isn't the only report I can provide that shows we could be
doing massively more to make ourselves more energy independent.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
<Steve Hargreaves article, which didn't provide an actual link to the
actual report because it probably would have destroyed his argument,
is bs
oh really here's the link to his article:

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/25/news/economy/oil_drilling_gas_prices/index.htm

excerpt
"The problem is this: While increased oil and gas drilling in the
United States may create good-paying jobs,
reduce reliance on foreign oil and lower the trade deficit, it will
have hardly any impact on gas and oil prices.
That's because the amount of extra oil that could be produced from
more drilling in this country is tiny
compared to what the world consumes. Plus, any extra oil the country
did produce would likely be quickly offset by a cut in OPEC
production."

now here's the report you attempted to cite which contradicts
everything you ever said about increased domestic drilling will lower
gasoline prices.


http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf

"Changes in domestic oil production tend to have only a modest impact
on crude oil and petroleum product prices, because any change in
domestic oil production is diluted in the world oil market. In 2009,
the United States produced 5.36 million barrels per day of crude oil
and lease condensate, or
7 percent of the world total of 72.26 million barrels per day. Unlike
crude oil supply and prices,
domestic natural gas supply and prices are determined largely by
supply and demand for
natural gas in the North American market, where the development and
production of shale gas in the Lower 48 States is largely responsible
for current and foreseeable future market conditions." (pg 36)


here's the report which you attempted to cite which I can prove you
contradicted yourself at this url

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/dc8b2e9536bd6643


here's the facts:


In the short term if major suppliers like OPEC increase oil
production, which is what they recently did on Friday, prices will go
down marginally,in the short term. The EIA.gov 2011 energy Outlook
study predicts oil could reach 200 dollars a barrel by 2035, because
one of its scenarios predicts OPEC's overall supply will drop from 40
percent, to about 36 percent, because of increasing population growth
and demand in Asia as well as overall dwindling global oil reserve
calculations.Shale oil and gas extraction is projected to grow during
this period, but the costs for extraction, are much higher than
traditional oil drilling extraction methods. see page 23 of the
EIA.gov report which your dumb ignorant ass
attempted to cite, w/out page numbers, because your a crypto-fascist
reactionary.

http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
On how prices for oil are set globally:


"“World oil prices are influenced by a number of factors, some of
which have mainly short-term impacts. Others, such as expectations
about world oil demand and OPEC production decisions, affect prices
in
the longer term. Supply and demand in the world oil market are
balanced through responses to price movements, and the factors
underlying expectations for supply and demand are both numerous and
complex. The key factors determining long-term expectations for oil
supply, demand, and prices can be summarized in four broad
categories:
the economics of non-OPEC conventional liquids supply; OPEC
investment
and production decisions; the economics of unconventional liquids
supply; and world demand for liquids.” (pg. 23)"

So you are happy to pay 8 dollars a gallon for gasoline in 2035.

“Long-term prospects
In past AEOs, High Oil Price and Low Oil Price cases have been used to
explore the potential impacts of changes in
world liquids supply on world (and U.S.) oil markets as a result of
either OPEC production decisions or changes in economic
access to non-OPEC resources. In AEO2011, the High Oil Price and Low
Oil Price cases have been expanded to incorporate
alternative assumptions about liquids supply, economic developments,
and liquids demand as key price determinants.
The assumed price paths in the AEO2011 High and Low Oil Price cases
bracket a broad range of possible future world oil price paths,
with prices in 2035 (in real 2009 dollars) at $200 per barrel in the
High Oil Price case and $50 per barrel in the Low Oil Price case, as
compared with $125 in the Reference case (Figure 13).(pg 23)”

2011 EIA.gov Energy Outlook Study
issues in focus section


http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf

Oil prices will continue to rise, in most scenarios the report says,
oil could reach between 125 dollars a barrel to 200 dollars a barrel.
(pg 23)
That's hardly economically sustainable for the long term. Green
Technologies, i.e., solar, wind power, Biomass,(pg. 77) and Nautral
Gas are going to be the new fuel technologies of the future. Quite
living in the past. do you really want to pay 8 dollars a gallon at
the pump.
Why do you think Google recently invested millions in Solar City
recently.
Iam sure they can spot long term market trends. Especially with global
warming,
we will have more days of sun, which makes solar one of the attractive
alternatives, to the global collapse of civilization
after oil runs out in 2100, since dipshits like you worship Jehovah as
the god of oil.


2009 energy outlook study note no contradiction with the 2011 report.
Crypto Fascist doesnt know how to read!!!

http://www.eia.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html

more proof that your static closed loop corporate welfare scheme for
the oil companies will not lower prices at the pump.


-excerpt-
"The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the
Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a
significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production
or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, and
production would not be expected to start before 2017. Total domestic
production of crude oil from 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case
is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and
3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For
the lower 48 OCS, annual crude oil production in 2030 is projected to
be 7 percent higher—2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access
case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case
(Figure 20). Because oil prices are determined on the international
market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to
be insignificant. "

also I was right when I said it takes 10 years to develop an oil well
and that potential reserves in the Gulf and elsewhere are overstated.


“In the High OCS Resource case, the assumed increase in technically
recoverable OCS resources in undeveloped areas impacts crude oil and
natural gas production through 2035, primarily because of the long
lead times required for resource development in the offshore,
regardless of the size of the resources discovered. In most areas,
depending on location and water depth, a period of 3 to 10 years for
exploration, infrastructure development, and developmental drilling
is
required from lease acquisition to first production. (35)”

Proof you know absolutely nothing about economics
2011 EIA.gov Energy Outlook Study
issues in focus section


http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf


"Changes in domestic oil production tend to have only a modest impact
on crude oil and petroleum product prices, because any change in
domestic oil production is diluted in the world oil market. In 2009,
the United States produced 5.36 million barrels per day of crude oil
and lease condensate,
or 7 percent of the world total of 72.26 million barrels per day.
Unlike crude oil supply and prices,
domestic natural gas supply and prices are determined largely by
supply and demand for
natural gas in the North American market, where the development and
production of shale gas in the Lower 48 States is largely responsible
for current and foreseeable future market conditions." (pg 36)


On how prices for oil are set globally:


"“World oil prices are influenced by a number of factors, some of
which have mainly short-term impacts. Others, such as expectations
about world oil demand and OPEC production decisions, affect prices
in
the longer term. Supply and demand in the world oil market are
balanced through responses to price movements, and the factors
underlying expectations for supply and demand are both numerous and
complex. The key factors determining long-term expectations for oil
supply, demand, and prices can be summarized in four broad
categories:
the economics of non-OPEC conventional liquids supply; OPEC
investment
and production decisions; the economics of unconventional liquids
supply; and world demand for liquids.” (pg. 23)"

thomaswheat1975
Tom Jigme Wheat
2011-06-25 00:05:59 UTC
Permalink
latest discussion in this usenet thread archived here @ http://groups.google.com

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread/thread/96b8c6e0efc0315d/4e2bd32c1f05156b?lnk=raot#4e2bd32c1f05156b

thomaswheat1975
Post by Thomas Jigme Wheat
On Jun 9, 8:09 pm, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head
Again, I'm against subsidies, bailouts and the like. (You're the
corporate establishment talking head, you psychotic moron)
According to a 2009 study from the government's Energy Information
Administration,
But I just provided another link from our government....If your
beloved government is lying on this then why should anyone believe it
at all? And why should we believe it over the people that want to
drill foroil? (What, they're going to spend billions for nothing?)
Your link doesn't account for the cost of theoilextraction
Actually it does.
3 to 4.3 Billion Barrels of Technically RecoverableOilAssessed in
North Dakota and Montana’s Bakken Formation—25 Times More Than 1995
Estimate—http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911
And this isn't the only report I can provide that shows we could be
doing massively more to make ourselves more energy independent.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
<Steve Hargreaves article, which didn't provide an actual link to the
actual report because it probably would have destroyed his argument,
is bs>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...
Talking out of your ass again dipshit corporatist establishment
talking head
Proof you contradicted yourself, when you attempted to cite a report
in which you claimed it said more increased US domesticoildrilling
would loweroilprices.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/dc8b2e953...
From: Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head
alt.politics,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa,alt.politics.liberal
Subject: Re: Fact: Palin could make a billion gaffes, shit herself on
stage,snuff a little kid and still be a thousand times better than our
warmongering idiot-in-chief. (President Pay More only gets one term)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:09:54 -0700 (PDT)
Organization:http://groups.google.com
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/dc8b2e953...
excerpt of your own words:>And this isn't the only report I can provide that shows we could be
doing massively more to make ourselves more energy independent.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
<Steve Hargreaves article, which didn't provide an actual link to the
actual report because it probably would have destroyed his argument,
is bs
http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/25/news/economy/oil_drilling_gas_prices/...
excerpt
"The problem is this: While increasedoiland gas drilling in the
United States may create good-paying jobs,
reduce reliance on foreignoiland lower the trade deficit, it will
have hardly any impact on gas andoilprices.
That's because the amount of extraoilthat could be produced from
more drilling in this country is tiny
compared to what the world consumes. Plus, any extraoilthe country
did produce would likely be quickly offset by a cut in OPECproduction."
now here's the report you attempted to cite which contradicts
everything you ever said about increased domestic drilling will lower
gasoline prices.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
"Changes in domesticoilproductiontend to have only a modest impact
on crudeoiland petroleum product prices, because any change in
domesticoilproductionis diluted in the worldoilmarket. In 2009,
the United States produced 5.36 million barrels per day of crudeoil
and lease condensate, or
7 percent of the world total of 72.26 million barrels per day. Unlike
crudeoilsupply and prices,
domestic natural gas supply and prices are determined largely by
supply and demand for
natural gas in the North American market, where the development andproductionof shale gas in the Lower 48 States is largely responsible
for current and foreseeable future market conditions." (pg 36)
here's the report which you attempted to cite which I can prove you
contradicted yourself at this url
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/dc8b2e953...
In the short term if major suppliers like OPEC increaseoilproduction, which is what they recently did on Friday, prices will go
down marginally,in the short term. The EIA.gov 2011 energy Outlook
study predictsoilcould reach 200 dollars a barrel by 2035, because
one of its scenarios predicts OPEC's overall supply will drop from 40
percent, to about 36 percent, because of increasing population growth
and demand in Asia as well as overall dwindling globaloilreserve
calculations.Shaleoiland gas extraction is projected to grow during
this period, but the costs for extraction, are much higher than
traditionaloildrilling extraction methods. see page 23 of the
EIA.gov report which your dumb ignorant ass
attempted to cite, w/out page numbers, because your a crypto-fascist
reactionary.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
"“Worldoilprices are influenced by a number of factors, some of
which have mainly short-term impacts. Others, such as expectations
about worldoildemand and OPECproductiondecisions, affect prices
in
the longer term. Supply and demand in the worldoilmarket are
balanced through responses to price movements, and the factors
underlying expectations for supply and demand are both numerous and
complex. The key factors determining long-term expectations foroil
supply, demand, and prices can be summarized in four broad
the economics of non-OPEC conventional liquids supply; OPEC
investment
andproductiondecisions; the economics of unconventional liquids
supply; and world demand for liquids.” (pg. 23)"
So you are happy to pay 8 dollars a gallon for gasoline in 2035.
“Long-term prospects
In past AEOs, HighOilPrice and LowOilPrice cases have been used to
explore the potential impacts of changes in
world liquids supply on world (and U.S.)oilmarkets as a result of
either OPECproductiondecisions or changes in economic
access to non-OPEC resources. In AEO2011, the HighOilPrice and LowOilPrice cases have been expanded to incorporate
alternative assumptions about liquids supply, economic developments,
and liquids demand as key price determinants.
The assumed price paths in the AEO2011 High and LowOilPrice cases
bracket a broad range of possible future worldoilprice paths,
with prices in 2035 (in real 2009 dollars) at $200 per barrel in the
HighOilPrice case and $50 per barrel in the LowOilPrice case, as
compared with $125 in the Reference case (Figure 13).(pg 23)”
2011 EIA.gov Energy Outlook Study
issues in focus section
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
Oilprices will continue to rise, in most scenarios the report says,oilcould reach between 125 dollars a barrel to 200 dollars a barrel.
(pg 23)
That's hardly economically sustainable for the long term. Green
Technologies, i.e., solar, wind power, Biomass,(pg. 77) and Nautral
Gas are going to be the new fuel technologies of the future. Quite
living in the past. do you really want to pay 8 dollars a gallon at
the pump.
Why do you think Google recently invested millions in Solar City
recently.
Iam sure they can spot long term market trends. Especially with global
warming,
we will have more days of sun, which makes solar one of the attractive
alternatives, to the global collapse of civilization
afteroilruns out in 2100, since dipshits like you worship Jehovah as
the god ofoil.
2009 energy outlook study note no contradiction with the 2011 report.
Crypto Fascist doesnt know how to read!!!
http://www.eia.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html
more proof that your static closed loop corporate welfare scheme for
theoilcompanies will not lower prices at the pump.
-excerpt-
"The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the
Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a
significant impact on domestic crudeoiland natural gasproduction
or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, andproductionwould not be expected to start before 2017. Total domesticproductionof crudeoilfrom 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case
is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and
3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For
the lower 48 OCS, annual crudeoilproductionin 2030 is projected to
be 7 percent higher—2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access
case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case
(Figure 20). Becauseoilprices are determined on the international
market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to
be insignificant. "
also I was right when I said it takes 10 years to develop anoilwell
and that potential reserves in the Gulf and elsewhere are overstated.
“In the High OCS Resource case, the assumed increase in technically
recoverable OCS resources in undeveloped areas impacts crudeoiland
natural gasproductionthrough 2035, primarily because of the long
lead times required for resource development in the offshore,
regardless of the size of the resources discovered. In most areas,
depending on location and water depth, a period of 3 to 10 years for
exploration, infrastructure development, and developmental drilling
is
required from lease acquisition to firstproduction. (35)”
Proof you know absolutely nothing about economics
2011 EIA.gov Energy Outlook Study
issues in focus section
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
"Changes in domesticoilproductiontend to have only a modest impact
on crudeoiland petroleum product prices, because any change in
domesticoilproductionis diluted in the worldoilmarket. In 2009,
the United States produced 5.36 million barrels per day of crudeoil
and lease condensate,
or 7 percent of the world total of 72.26 million barrels per day.
Unlike crudeoilsupply and prices,
domestic natural gas supply and prices are determined largely by
supply and demand for
natural gas in the North American market, where the development andproductionof shale gas in the Lower 48 States is largely responsible
for current and foreseeable future market conditions." (pg 36)
"“Worldoilprices are influenced by a number of factors, some of
which have mainly short-term impacts. Others, such as expectations
about worldoildemand and OPECproductiondecisions, affect prices
in
the longer term. Supply and demand in the worldoilmarket are
balanced through responses to price movements, and the factors
underlying expectations for supply and demand are both numerous and
complex. The key factors determining long-term expectations foroil
supply, demand, and prices can be summarized in four broad
the economics of non-OPEC conventional liquids supply; OPEC
investment
andproductiondecisions; the economics of unconventional liquids
supply; and world demand for liquids.” (pg. 23)"
thomaswheat1975
s***@yahoo.com
2011-07-01 17:30:23 UTC
Permalink
latest discussion archived at alt.politics.democrats.d

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread/thread/96b8c6e0efc0315d/67dfc9108e4ee6de

I've posted approximatelly 55 posts in this thread,
regarding the fallacious view that increased US domestic oil drilling
will not lower oil prices, since the prioe is set by overall global
demand, OPEC, and futures speculators. I've tried to convince these
neocons, of the viability of renewable fuel sources like hydrogen,
biomass and nuclear fusion. Here's the link to the European union's
website on Nuclear fusion regarding environmental impact of the
Tokamak nuclear fusion power plant.

http://ec.europa.eu/research/energy/euratom/fusion/microscope/safety-and-environment/index_en.htm


check it out. Sooner or later we must transition from fossil fuels to
hydrogen fuel cell, natural gas, biomass, etc., since world oil
reserves will be exhausted by year 2100. With world demand currently
at 60 million barrels a day, and with world population projected to be
at or above 10 billion people by year 2100 this is a plausible
scenario to conjecture.

Also the Energy Information administration in its 2011 energy outlook
study predicts that the price of oil will be 200 dollars a barrel by
2030, translating into 8 dollars a gallon of gasoline. http://www.eia.gov
please see prior posts in this discussion thread, for link to the
study.


This is hardly sustainable economically or environementally. Also our
demand for oil, forces us to committ ourselves to expensive military
interventions in
the middle east, in support of ruthless despots, that reinforces
collective arab opinion that we are the source of their repression.
Our interventions in behalf off these despots, fuels arab animosity,
that translates into greater security liabilities for us, as we are
forced to repel or respond to terrroist attacks. Furthermore, the oil
market is rigged by speculators. The CEO of exxon even admitted in
congressional testimony that 40% of the price of gasoline at the pump
was due to speculation.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-lenzner/exxonmobil-ceo-says-oil-p_b_862811.html

Hydrogen fuel cell, natural gas and deuterium-tritium, are not
subject to speculators, and the latter, has unlimited inexhaustable
supplies here on earth. We need to build this nuclear fusion power
plant. http://www.pppl.gov/fusionpowerplant.cfm


As a short term solution we need to improve fuel economy. WE already
have the technology. see this study, the oil companies have been
repressing patents and innovation. THey have no desire to see us
increase fuel productivity, because they have grown fat and lazy on
the corporate welfare subsidies we tax payers provide them.
Furthermore this has not encouraged them to transition to alternative
fuel sources, even though we have a finite supply, because they
benefit trmendously when their are price spikes in oil prices.


How to Improve Fuel Economy


Citation: Shell Oil Company’s “Fuel Economy of the Gasoline
Engine” (ISBN 0470991321); 1977. On page 42, Shell Oil quotes the
(then) President of General Motors who predicted in 1929 that cars
would achieve 80 mpg by 1939. Pages 221 through 223 have Shell
writing
of their test circuit achievements, specifically the 49.73 mpg
achieved in 1939; the 149.95 mpg achieved in 1949 ; 244.35 mpg in
1968
and the biggie, 376.59 mpg in 1973.


http://cfpub.epa.gov/ols/catalog/catalog_display.cfm?&FIELD1=SUBJECT&INPUT1=Internal%20combustion%20engines%20Spark%20ignition%20Fuel%20consumption&TYPE1=EXACT&item_count=3

Article about the 1959 Opel that got over 350 miles to the gallon,
and
that if it were made more drivable, you would still be able to get
over 175 miles to the gallon.


http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Hybrids-meet-your-rival-it-gets-376-59-mpg-1264903.php

you can buy the book here:


http://www.amazon.com/Fuel-Economy-Gasoline-Engine-Lubricant/dp/0333220226/

Furthermore,
if we could get the whole US electricity grid powered by natural gas,
hydrogen fuel cell and by the Tokamak nuclear fusion test reactor, we
could reduce our yearly consumption of oil by over 30%. If we powered
our cars with hydrogen fuel cell and natural gas and or biomass, we
wouldn't have to intiate the 100's of billions of foreign transfer of
US wealth to Arab despots. We could break the cycle of despotism and
terrorism if we stopped buying oil from the middle east. The future
is
now. Humanity needs only to act upon it!!!

long term we must make the transition, to the TOKAMAK nuclear
fusion reactor. The fuel source that powers the reactor is virtually
inexhaustable, and cheap. Besides Tritium, Deuterium and Lithium are
some of the most abundant elements on earth, and the tokamak,
requires
fewer quantities of these materials say compared to a coal power
plant's demand for coal. The europeans have taken the lead in
construction the fusion reactor. However, we had a Tokamak nuclear
fusion reactor at the Princeton Plasma Physics Institute, for over 20
years. It met all of its target goals, but was discontinued. This
proves that there is a conspiracy, in the United States of America,
by
the oil and coal companies to defeat the commercial production of
nuclear fusion power plants. The fact is if we don't restore funding
for the Tokamak, by 2015 or 2020 when the European union finishes
construction of the first commercial reactor, we will be left behind
in the dust of fossil fuel reactionary statism. Already our
infrastructure in america is crumbling. If we didn't have to spend so
much on oil/gasoline, we could repair our infrastructure. Fusion
power
is cheap inexhaustable, and doesn't have the terrorist byproduct
associated with purchasing oil from middle eastern authoritarian
countries. main website of the project: http://www.iter.org


President Obama should restore funding for this vital program


Monopoly capitalism: How to standardize consumption but fragment
production

thomaswheat1975
Post by Thomas Jigme Wheat
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...
thomaswheat1975
Post by Thomas Jigme Wheat
On Jun 9, 8:09 pm, Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head
Again, I'm against subsidies, bailouts and the like. (You're the
corporate establishment talking head, you psychotic moron)
According to a 2009 study from the government's Energy Information
Administration,
But I just provided another link from our government....If your
beloved government is lying on this then why should anyone believe it
at all? And why should we believe it over the people that want to
drill foroil? (What, they're going to spend billions for nothing?)
Your link doesn't account for the cost of theoilextraction
Actually it does.
3 to 4.3 Billion Barrels of Technically RecoverableOilAssessed in
North Dakota and Montana’s Bakken Formation—25 Times More Than 1995
Estimate—http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911
And this isn't the only report I can provide that shows we could be
doing massively more to make ourselves more energy independent.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
<Steve Hargreaves article, which didn't provide an actual link to the
actual report because it probably would have destroyed his argument,
is bs>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/browse_thread...
Talking out of your ass again dipshit corporatist establishment
talking head
Proof you contradicted yourself, when you attempted to cite a report
in which you claimed it said more increased US domesticoildrilling
would loweroilprices.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/dc8b2e953...
From: Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head
alt.politics,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics­.usa,alt.politics.liberal
Subject: Re: Fact: Palin could make a billion gaffes, shit herself on
stage,snuff a little kid and still be a thousand times better than our
warmongering idiot-in-chief. (President Pay More only gets one term)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:09:54 -0700 (PDT)
Organization:http://groups.google.com
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/dc8b2e953...
excerpt of your own words:>And this isn't the only report I can provide that shows we could be
doing massively more to make ourselves more energy independent.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
<Steve Hargreaves article, which didn't provide an actual link to the
actual report because it probably would have destroyed his argument,
is bs
http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/25/news/economy/oil_drilling_gas_prices/...
excerpt
"The problem is this: While increasedoiland gas drilling in the
United States may create good-paying jobs,
reduce reliance on foreignoiland lower the trade deficit, it will
have hardly any impact on gas andoilprices.
That's because the amount of extraoilthat could be produced from
more drilling in this country is tiny
compared to what the world consumes. Plus, any extraoilthe country
did produce would likely be quickly offset by a cut in OPECproduction."
now here's the report you attempted to cite which contradicts
everything you ever said about increased domestic drilling will lower
gasoline prices.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
"Changes in domesticoilproductiontend to have only a modest impact
on crudeoiland petroleum product prices, because any change in
domesticoilproductionis diluted in the worldoilmarket. In 2009,
the United States produced 5.36 million barrels per day of crudeoil
and lease condensate, or
7 percent of the world total of 72.26 million barrels per day. Unlike
crudeoilsupply and prices,
domestic natural gas supply and prices are determined largely by
supply and demand for
natural gas in the North American market, where the development andproductionof shale gas in the Lower 48 States is largely responsible
for current and foreseeable future market conditions." (pg 36)
here's the report which you attempted to cite which I can prove you
contradicted yourself at this url
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/dc8b2e953...
In the short term if major suppliers like OPEC increaseoilproduction, which is what they recently did on Friday, prices will go
down marginally,in the short term. The EIA.gov 2011 energy Outlook
study predictsoilcould reach 200 dollars a barrel by 2035, because
one of its scenarios predicts OPEC's overall supply will drop from 40
percent, to about 36 percent, because of increasing population growth
and demand in Asia as well as overall dwindling globaloilreserve
calculations.Shaleoiland gas extraction is projected to grow during
this period, but the costs for extraction, are much higher than
traditionaloildrilling extraction methods. see page 23 of the
EIA.gov report which your dumb ignorant ass
attempted to cite, w/out page numbers, because your a crypto-fascist
reactionary.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
"“Worldoilprices are influenced by a number of factors, some of
which have mainly short-term impacts. Others, such as expectations
about worldoildemand and OPECproductiondecisions, affect prices
in
the longer term. Supply and demand in the worldoilmarket are
balanced through responses to price movements, and the factors
underlying expectations for supply and demand are both numerous and
complex. The key factors determining long-term expectations foroil
supply, demand, and prices can be summarized in four broad
the economics of non-OPEC conventional liquids supply; OPEC
investment
andproductiondecisions; the economics of unconventional liquids
supply; and world demand for liquids.” (pg. 23)"
So you are happy to pay 8 dollars a gallon for gasoline in 2035.
“Long-term prospects
In past AEOs, HighOilPrice and LowOilPrice cases have been used to
explore the potential impacts of changes in
world liquids supply on world (and U.S.)oilmarkets as a result of
either OPECproductiondecisions or changes in economic
access to non-OPEC resources. In AEO2011, the HighOilPrice and LowOilPrice cases have been expanded to incorporate
alternative assumptions about liquids supply, economic developments,
and liquids demand as key price determinants.
The assumed price paths in the AEO2011 High and LowOilPrice cases
bracket a broad range of possible future worldoilprice paths,
with prices in 2035 (in real 2009 dollars) at $200 per barrel in the
HighOilPrice case and $50 per barrel in the LowOilPrice case, as
compared with $125 in the Reference case (Figure 13).(pg 23)”
2011 EIA.gov Energy Outlook Study
issues in focus section
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/pdf/0383%282011%29.pdf
Oilprices will continue to rise, in most scenarios the report says,oilcould reach between 125 dollars a barrel to 200 dollars a barrel.
(pg 23)
That's hardly economically sustainable for the long term. Green
Technologies, i.e., solar, wind power, Biomass,(pg. 77) and Nautral
Gas are going to be the new fuel technologies of the future. Quite
living in the past. do you really want to pay 8 dollars a gallon at
the pump.
Why do you think Google recently invested millions in Solar City
recently.
Iam sure they can spot long term market trends. Especially with global
warming,
we will have more days of sun, which makes solar one of the attractive
alternatives, to the global collapse of civilization
afteroilruns out in 2100, since dipshits like you worship Jehovah as
the god ofoil.
2009 energy outlook study note no contradiction with the 2011 report.
Crypto Fascist doesnt know how to read!!!
http://www.eia.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html
more proof that your static closed loop corporate welfare scheme for
theoilcompanies will not lower prices at the pump.
-excerpt-
"The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the
Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a
significant impact on domestic crudeoiland natural gasproduction
or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, andproductionwould not be expected to start before 2017. Total domesticproductionof crudeoilfrom 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case
is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and
3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For
the lower 48 OCS, annual crudeoilproductionin 2030 is projected to
be 7 percent higher—2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access
case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case
(Figure 20). Becauseoilprices are determined on the international
market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to
be insignificant. "
also I was right when I said it takes 10 years to develop anoilwell
and that potential reserves in the Gulf and elsewhere are overstated.
“In the High OCS Resource case, the assumed increase in technically
recoverable OCS resources in undeveloped areas impacts crudeoiland
natural gasproductionthrough 2035, primarily because of the long
lead times required for resource development in the offshore,
regardless of the size of the resources discovered.
...
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