Trader Joe's

[Tim May]

I've found that Trader Joe's makes great frozen pizza and their crust
is, for me, a cut above most others. Very thin and crispy, and
serves a little dusty. Best when baked directly on the rack.

I miss Trader Joe's! There used to be one right down the street from me in
Long Beach, CA. I've gone without one for about 15 years now. Sigh.

Fifteen years ago the TJ's were much smaller. Nearly all of the newer
ones are now the size of supermarkets of the 1980s, typically, about
20,000 square feet or larger. (Supermarkets have been getting bigger,
with the new footprint typically pushing 50,000 square feet.)

Personally, I've found TJ's way too limiting in selection. The nutshell
idea is this:

In even a mundane Safeway (or Ralph's or Publix or whatever your
regional megabrand is), the _salsa_ aisle will have dozens of different
kinds of salsas, from canned sauces from Mexico like Herdez Salsa
Casera to little bottles of hot sauce from various places to jars from
La Victoria, Pace, Ortega, even El Torito and Taco Bell. And even big
64-ounce plastic bottles. (My standard is the large plastic bottle of
La Victoria Medium.)

My new mega-Safeway (55,000 square feet) even has an entire shelf lined
with what used to be found only in "spice stores," that is, specialty
bottles of habanero and fruity and other exotic salsas. Even my
favorite Jamican jerk seasoning, which Trader Joe's certainly does not
carry.

Meanwhile, over at Trader Joe's, the salsa selection is basically
limited to a small handful of "in house brands," usually with something
cutesy like "Trader Jose's Verde Chili Salsa."

I've tried all of the 4-5 varieties of salsa that TJ's sells and they
are all terrible to my taste. Most are overly salty.

Which is fine, in a normal store. In a normal store, I would just pass
them by. But in TJ's, this is it. It's TJ's way or it's the highway.

In Safeway, there would be a vast selection. And in even more upscale
stores, like Whole Foods or my local yuppie store ("Deluxe Foods," in
Aptos, California), a wide variety of specialty salsas. Along with the
basics (Ortega, Pace, La Victoria, Herdez, etc.).

Another example is horseradish sauce. Most supermarkets have several
different vendors, from Beaver to Mezzetta's to Kraft to Boar's Head.
And in different styles, from pure grated to cream-style. And even in
different intensities of flavor. Not so Trader Joe's. One lone style of
horseradish. Last I was there, it was at least not some in-house brand
with a cutesy name (such as "Trader Johanne's Authentic German
Horseradish"). No, at least I found Mezzetta's, which is OK, though not
as good as Boar's Head.

Some things Trader Joe's does very well. The problem is that I don't
want to buy a few things at Trader Joe's and then head over to a
normal supermarket.

Costco suffers from the same problem. Instead of a whole aisle of
various kinds of canned beans or baked beans, there will be a large
pallet of "Stagg Baked Beans" or whatever. Well, gee, maybe I want
Hunt's, or Del Monte, or specialty beans. Nope. It's the Costco way or
the highway.

"Da, Comrade, this month we have pallets of Fred's Original Baked
Beans."

I have a strong suspicion that the Soviet-style selection choices of
both of these store chains--TJ's and Costco--are going to have to
change if they are to compete with the newer and much larger
supermarkets and with upscale competitors such as Whole Foods.

--Tim May

[kilikini]

Post by Tim May
Personally, I've found TJ's way too limiting in selection. The
In even a mundane Safeway (or Ralph's or Publix or whatever your
regional megabrand is), the _salsa_ aisle will have dozens of
different kinds of salsas, from canned sauces from Mexico like Herdez
Salsa Casera to little bottles of hot sauce from various places to
jars from La Victoria, Pace, Ortega, even El Torito and Taco Bell.
And even big 64-ounce plastic bottles. (My standard is the large
plastic bottle of La Victoria Medium.)
My new mega-Safeway (55,000 square feet) even has an entire shelf
lined with what used to be found only in "spice stores," that is,
specialty bottles of habanero and fruity and other exotic salsas.
Even my favorite Jamican jerk seasoning, which Trader Joe's certainly
does not carry.
Meanwhile, over at Trader Joe's, the salsa selection is basically
limited to a small handful of "in house brands," usually with
something cutesy like "Trader Jose's Verde Chili Salsa."
I've tried all of the 4-5 varieties of salsa that TJ's sells and they
are all terrible to my taste. Most are overly salty.
Which is fine, in a normal store. In a normal store, I would just pass
them by. But in TJ's, this is it. It's TJ's way or it's the highway.
In Safeway, there would be a vast selection. And in even more upscale
stores, like Whole Foods or my local yuppie store ("Deluxe Foods," in
Aptos, California), a wide variety of specialty salsas. Along with the
basics (Ortega, Pace, La Victoria, Herdez, etc.).
Another example is horseradish sauce. Most supermarkets have several
different vendors, from Beaver to Mezzetta's to Kraft to Boar's Head.
And in different styles, from pure grated to cream-style. And even in
different intensities of flavor. Not so Trader Joe's. One lone style
of horseradish. Last I was there, it was at least not some in-house
brand with a cutesy name (such as "Trader Johanne's Authentic German
Horseradish"). No, at least I found Mezzetta's, which is OK, though
not as good as Boar's Head.
Some things Trader Joe's does very well. The problem is that I don't
want to buy a few things at Trader Joe's and then head over to a
normal supermarket.
Costco suffers from the same problem. Instead of a whole aisle of
various kinds of canned beans or baked beans, there will be a large
pallet of "Stagg Baked Beans" or whatever. Well, gee, maybe I want
Hunt's, or Del Monte, or specialty beans. Nope. It's the Costco way or
the highway.
"Da, Comrade, this month we have pallets of Fred's Original Baked
Beans."
I have a strong suspicion that the Soviet-style selection choices of
both of these store chains--TJ's and Costco--are going to have to
change if they are to compete with the newer and much larger
supermarkets and with upscale competitors such as Whole Foods.
--Tim May

That's sad to hear. I used to love TJ's for their specialty items. They
used to carry things from all over that world that you couldn't find in a
standard grocery store and everything was relatively inexpensive compared to
supermarkets. I remember going to TJ's specifically for frozen seafood,
peanut butter dog biscuits (my dog LOVED those!), and blueberry juice;
everything else I picked up in the trip was just a bonus.

There was a great store up in Jacksonville we used to visit on our way back
from the Mayo Clinic that had furniture, dishes, kitchen equipment, spices,
beer, wine, sauces, and candies; but they don't sell refrigerated or frozen
items. I think it was called World Market (?) and it was AMAZING. I could
literally spend days in that place; I just wish we had one locally - 4 1/2
hours drive is a bit far to get some groceries. :~)

kili <------ who is stuck in bohunckville (sigh)

[Tim May]

Post by kilikini
That's sad to hear. I used to love TJ's for their specialty items. They
used to carry things from all over that world that you couldn't find in a
standard grocery store and everything was relatively inexpensive compared to
supermarkets. I remember going to TJ's specifically for frozen seafood,
peanut butter dog biscuits (my dog LOVED those!), and blueberry juice;
everything else I picked up in the trip was just a bonus.

TJ's still sells that stuff (don't know about the dog biscuits, but
probably). Lots of juices, lots of frozen seafood.

If TJ's carries what one likes, good. But Baal help you if you want
multiple choices in most categories. One kind of ketchup, one kind of
horseradish, one kind of peanut butter...

Post by kilikini
There was a great store up in Jacksonville we used to visit on our way back
from the Mayo Clinic that had furniture, dishes, kitchen equipment, spices,
beer, wine, sauces, and candies; but they don't sell refrigerated or frozen
items. I think it was called World Market (?) and it was AMAZING. I could
literally spend days in that place; I just wish we had one locally - 4 1/2
hours drive is a bit far to get some groceries. :~)

Sounds like Cost Plus, aka Cost Plus World Market, aka just World
Market, another California-based store. The food section usually has
various beers, spices, condiments, scattered amongst the wicker
baskets, futons, and "sustainably-harvested" tropical wood furniture.

(I just Googled and confirmed this: Cost Plus, Inc (Cost Plus World
Market) 11112 San Jose Blvd, Jacksonville, FL 32223-7951.

I'm a fan of their furniture. I redid my office with a very solid
"fruitwood" (?) desk table, a matching bookcase, and even a credenza.
All very reasonably-priced, though time-consuming to assesmble and bolt
together. Everything is shipped from Indonesia or Malaysia in flat
boxes. Heavier stuff than Ikea, so more solid. Their very large dining
room tables are a very good buy.

Post by kilikini
kili <------ who is stuck in bohunckville (sigh)

Wherever you are in Florida, sounds like a desert. No TJ's, no Cost
Plus, no Jack in the Box.

Perhaps you are not looking hard enough? A check with Google turns up
15 World Market locations in Florida. Surely some of them are within
easy driving range of you? Florida just isn't that big.

http://www.worldmarket.com/custserv/store_listing.jsp?state=9

World Market stores in Florida.  Click on a location for store details.

Daytona Beach
2400 W International Speedway, #300

Estero (Coconut Point)
8072 Meditarranean Dr.

Fort Myers
13741 S. Tamiami Trail

Jacksonville (Mandarin)
11112 San Jose Blvd

Jacksonville (Regency Commons)
651 Commerce Center Drive

Jacksonville Beach (Marsh Landing)
950 Marsh Landing Pkwy

Melbourne
2221 Town Center Ave.

Naples
2415 Tarpon Bay Blvd, Unit #3

Orange Park
1919 Wells Rd

Orlando
1744 Sand Lake Road

Pembroke Pines (Fort Lauderdale)
11960 Pines Boulevard

Pensacola
5420 North 9th Ave.

Sanford
2251 WP Ball Blvd

Tallahassee
1480 Apalachee Parkway

Winter Garden
3227 Daniels Road

[kilikini]

Post by Tim May

Post by kilikini
That's sad to hear. I used to love TJ's for their specialty items.
They used to carry things from all over that world that you couldn't
find in a standard grocery store and everything was relatively
inexpensive compared to supermarkets. I remember going to TJ's
specifically for frozen seafood, peanut butter dog biscuits (my dog
LOVED those!), and blueberry juice; everything else I picked up in
the trip was just a bonus.

TJ's still sells that stuff (don't know about the dog biscuits, but
probably). Lots of juices, lots of frozen seafood.
If TJ's carries what one likes, good. But Baal help you if you want
multiple choices in most categories. One kind of ketchup, one kind of
horseradish, one kind of peanut butter...

Post by kilikini
There was a great store up in Jacksonville we used to visit on our
way back from the Mayo Clinic that had furniture, dishes, kitchen
equipment, spices, beer, wine, sauces, and candies; but they don't
sell refrigerated or frozen items. I think it was called World
Market (?) and it was AMAZING. I could literally spend days in that
place; I just wish we had one locally - 4 1/2 hours drive is a bit
far to get some groceries. :~)

Sounds like Cost Plus, aka Cost Plus World Market, aka just World
Market, another California-based store. The food section usually has
various beers, spices, condiments, scattered amongst the wicker
baskets, futons, and "sustainably-harvested" tropical wood furniture.
(I just Googled and confirmed this: Cost Plus, Inc (Cost Plus World
Market) 11112 San Jose Blvd, Jacksonville, FL 32223-7951.
I'm a fan of their furniture. I redid my office with a very solid
"fruitwood" (?) desk table, a matching bookcase, and even a credenza.
All very reasonably-priced, though time-consuming to assesmble and
bolt together. Everything is shipped from Indonesia or Malaysia in
flat boxes. Heavier stuff than Ikea, so more solid. Their very large
dining room tables are a very good buy.

Post by kilikini
kili <------ who is stuck in bohunckville (sigh)

Wherever you are in Florida, sounds like a desert. No TJ's, no Cost
Plus, no Jack in the Box.
Perhaps you are not looking hard enough? A check with Google turns up
15 World Market locations in Florida. Surely some of them are within
easy driving range of you? Florida just isn't that big.
http://www.worldmarket.com/custserv/store_listing.jsp?state=9
World Market stores in Florida. Click on a location for store details.
Daytona Beach
2400 W International Speedway, #300
Estero (Coconut Point)
8072 Meditarranean Dr.
Fort Myers
13741 S. Tamiami Trail
Jacksonville (Mandarin)
11112 San Jose Blvd
Jacksonville (Regency Commons)
651 Commerce Center Drive
Jacksonville Beach (Marsh Landing)
950 Marsh Landing Pkwy
Melbourne
2221 Town Center Ave.
Naples
2415 Tarpon Bay Blvd, Unit #3
Orange Park
1919 Wells Rd
Orlando
1744 Sand Lake Road
Pembroke Pines (Fort Lauderdale)
11960 Pines Boulevard
Pensacola
5420 North 9th Ave.
Sanford
2251 WP Ball Blvd
Tallahassee
1480 Apalachee Parkway
Winter Garden
3227 Daniels Road

Orlando is probably the closest; about 2 hours away. :-(

kili

[Karen]

Post by Tim May
Perhaps you are not looking hard enough? A check with Google turns up
15 World Market locations in Florida. Surely some of them are within
easy driving range of you? Florida just isn't that big.
http://www.worldmarket.com/custserv/store_listing.jsp?state=9
World Market stores in Florida.  Click on a location for store details.

I spent last weekend in Phoenix and my friend told me that Cost Plus
is referred to as "World Market" there. I thought that was different,
and I wouldn't have known what it was if someone said World Market and
not Cost Plus. But, now I'm thinking that I am out of the loupe here,
too, and that once was CP is now commonly known as WM here, as
well?...

Karen

[Steve Pope]

Post by Karen
I spent last weekend in Phoenix and my friend told me that Cost Plus
is referred to as "World Market" there. I thought that was different,
and I wouldn't have known what it was if someone said World Market and
not Cost Plus. But, now I'm thinking that I am out of the loupe here,
too, and that once was CP is now commonly known as WM here, as
well?...

The local Bay Area "Cost Plus" stores started calling themselves
"Cost Plus World Market" a long time ago, perhaps 15 years back.
The Fisherman's Wharf store was the original one. I have no
idea how their stores in other markets are named (300 stores
in 35 states per Wikipedia).

Steve

[Tim May]

In article

Post by Karen

Post by Tim May
Perhaps you are not looking hard enough? A check with Google turns up
15 World Market locations in Florida. Surely some of them are within
easy driving range of you? Florida just isn't that big.
http://www.worldmarket.com/custserv/store_listing.jsp?state=9
World Market stores in Florida.  Click on a location for store details.

I spent last weekend in Phoenix and my friend told me that Cost Plus
is referred to as "World Market" there. I thought that was different,
and I wouldn't have known what it was if someone said World Market and
not Cost Plus. But, now I'm thinking that I am out of the loupe here,
too, and that once was CP is now commonly known as WM here, as
well?...

I was careful to use all three variants, with the latter two as "aka,"
meaning, "also known as."

The stock trades as Cost Plus, Inc.


--Tim May

[Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply]

Post by kilikini
There was a great store up in Jacksonville we used to visit on our way back
from the Mayo Clinic that had furniture, dishes, kitchen equipment, spices,
beer, wine, sauces, and candies; but they don't sell refrigerated or frozen
items. I think it was called World Market (?) and it was AMAZING. I could
literally spend days in that place; I just wish we had one locally - 4 1/2
hours drive is a bit far to get some groceries. :~)

Is that Cost Plus World Market? I agree, that store is amazing.

[kilikini]

Post by Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply

Post by kilikini
There was a great store up in Jacksonville we used to visit on our
way back from the Mayo Clinic that had furniture, dishes, kitchen
equipment, spices, beer, wine, sauces, and candies; but they don't
sell refrigerated or frozen items. I think it was called World
Market (?) and it was AMAZING. I could literally spend days in that
place; I just wish we had one locally - 4 1/2 hours drive is a bit
far to get some groceries. :~)

Is that Cost Plus World Market? I agree, that store is amazing.

Yeah, that must be it. I love that store!

kili

[Sqwertz]

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:33:36 -0800, Samantha Hill - take out

Post by Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply

Post by kilikini
There was a great store up in Jacksonville we used to visit on our way back
from the Mayo Clinic that had furniture, dishes, kitchen equipment, spices,
beer, wine, sauces, and candies; but they don't sell refrigerated or frozen
items. I think it was called World Market (?) and it was AMAZING. I could
literally spend days in that place; I just wish we had one locally - 4 1/2
hours drive is a bit far to get some groceries. :~)

Is that Cost Plus World Market? I agree, that store is amazing.

And some of the stores have a great beer selection. The
selection in each store is up to each individual store, so some
CPWM's will have different assortments. The one in Santa Cruz
and the one in/on Alamden in (South SJ) have very good selections
at reasonable prices.

-sw

[Jeannie]

On Feb 23, 1:33 pm, Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply

Is that Cost Plus World Market?  I agree, that store is amazing.

It's my favorite place to shop for stocking stuffers before the
holidays. The food bins have all sorts of small yummy stuff like
sausages, lemon curd, and maple sugar candy in pilgrim, leaf or Santa
shapes.

Jeannie

[Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply]

That is undoubtedly because they got bought out by that big German
conglomerate.

Post by Tim May
Fifteen years ago the TJ's were much smaller. Nearly all of the newer
ones are now the size of supermarkets of the 1980s, typically, about
20,000 square feet or larger. (Supermarkets have been getting bigger,
with the new footprint typically pushing 50,000 square feet.)

[Tim May]

Post by Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply
That is undoubtedly because they got bought out by that big German
conglomerate.

That happened in 1979. So much for it being a recent causal connection.


--Tim May

[Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply]

Post by Tim May

Post by Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply
That is undoubtedly because they got bought out by that big German
conglomerate.

That happened in 1979. So much for it being a recent causal connection.

Oh, wow, I had *no* idea it happened so long ago. For some reason, I
was under the impression that it happened in the 90s sometime.

[Steve Pope]

Post by Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply

Post by Tim May
That happened in 1979. So much for it being a recent causal connection.

Oh, wow, I had *no* idea it happened so long ago. For some reason, I
was under the impression that it happened in the 90s sometime.

My recollection is that the acquisition of TJ's happened many
years before the German owners stepped in to actively manage it.

Steve

[Golden California Girls]

Post by Steve Pope

Post by Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply

Post by Tim May
That happened in 1979. So much for it being a recent causal connection.

Oh, wow, I had *no* idea it happened so long ago. For some reason, I
was under the impression that it happened in the 90s sometime.

My recollection is that the acquisition of TJ's happened many
years before the German owners stepped in to actively manage it.

For many years after the purchase Joe Coulombe Sr ran the chain. When he
retired in 1988 that is when it changed for the worse.

[Steve Pope]

Post by Golden California Girls

Post by Steve Pope
My recollection is that the acquisition of TJ's happened many
years before the German owners stepped in to actively manage it.

For many years after the purchase Joe Coulombe Sr ran the chain.
When he retired in 1988 that is when it changed for the worse.

Thanks, that fits in with what I recall TJ's employees describing
to me in that time frame.

Steve

[Tim May]

Post by Golden California Girls

Post by Steve Pope

Post by Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply

Post by Tim May
That happened in 1979. So much for it being a recent causal connection.

Oh, wow, I had *no* idea it happened so long ago. For some reason, I
was under the impression that it happened in the 90s sometime.

My recollection is that the acquisition of TJ's happened many
years before the German owners stepped in to actively manage it.

For many years after the purchase Joe Coulombe Sr ran the chain. When he
retired in 1988 that is when it changed for the worse.

Silly comments. Had TJ's stayed at anything remotely resembling its
1980s form it would be even more dismissed today than it is. The TJ's
prior to the early 90s were tiny, tiny, tiny stores.

The main problem I have with TJ's today is that even their 20,000
square foot footprint stores are tiny compared to the choiced in 50,000
square foot Safeways and 60,000 square foot Whole Foods stores.

Four kinds of overly salty salsa, compared to hundred of kinds at
Safeway. One single kind of horseradish, Marzetta's, in one size,
compared to the choice at Safeway of Beaver, Boar's Head, Kraft,
Marzetta, and others. In different styles (fresh-grated, creamed). I
rest my case.

The things they do well, such as frozen seafood, juices, and some
wines, they do well. But no longer are they the sole purveyor of
"imported" items. All of their competitors now carry items from around
the world. And usually with a far wider selection.

Their edge was back when Kroger/Ralph's/Publix/Safeway bought mainly
from American producers like Del Monte, Kraft, Dean, and Dole. This
edge has been lost as all grocery stores have diversified.

It's just plain blissninny magical thinking to automatically impute the
cause to "the Germans taking over" or to "corporatization."

What are you people, children?

I know, Osama voters.


--Tim May

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Tim May
The main problem I have with TJ's today is that even their 20,000
square foot footprint stores are tiny compared to the choiced in 50,000
square foot Safeways and 60,000 square foot Whole Foods stores.
Four kinds of overly salty salsa, compared to hundred of kinds at
Safeway. One single kind of horseradish, Marzetta's, in one size,
compared to the choice at Safeway of Beaver, Boar's Head, Kraft,
Marzetta, and others. In different styles (fresh-grated, creamed). I
rest my case.

If you like the TJ brand it doesn't matter how many choices Safeway
has. For everything they carry except meat, TJ saves you money. Few
people buy all their groceries at TJ. When we run out of something
that we buy there, we stop on the way home and get it. Perhaps, holed
up in the Fortress of Solitude, Tim prefers one-stop shopping on his
rare excursions to town. In that case, I would go to an equivalent of
Lunardi or Cosentino, to get an acceptable quality of meat and
produce.

[Tim May]

In article

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Tim May
The main problem I have with TJ's today is that even their 20,000
square foot footprint stores are tiny compared to the choiced in 50,000
square foot Safeways and 60,000 square foot Whole Foods stores.
Four kinds of overly salty salsa, compared to hundred of kinds at
Safeway. One single kind of horseradish, Marzetta's, in one size,
compared to the choice at Safeway of Beaver, Boar's Head, Kraft,
Marzetta, and others. In different styles (fresh-grated, creamed). I
rest my case.

If you like the TJ brand it doesn't matter how many choices Safeway
has.

True. And in how many product areas do I think--and do _you_ think--the
buyers in Pasadena or New Jersey have made the optimum choice for you?

For those who have drunk the Trader Jonestown Kool-Aid, their "one
choice means less to worry about!" mantra sounds good.

For the rest of us, we favor many kinds of ketchup, of salsa, of canned
tomatoes, of potatoes, of pancake syrup.

"But, but, Trader Guido (a minwage newbie 22-year-old office worker in
Hackensack, NJ) has selected the canned plum tomatoes from Botswan as
our preferred Trader Guido canned tomatoes for this purchasing period!"


--Tim May

[Golden California Girls]

Post by Tim May
In article

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Tim May
The main problem I have with TJ's today is that even their 20,000
square foot footprint stores are tiny compared to the choiced in 50,000
square foot Safeways and 60,000 square foot Whole Foods stores.
Four kinds of overly salty salsa, compared to hundred of kinds at
Safeway. One single kind of horseradish, Marzetta's, in one size,
compared to the choice at Safeway of Beaver, Boar's Head, Kraft,
Marzetta, and others. In different styles (fresh-grated, creamed). I
rest my case.

If you like the TJ brand it doesn't matter how many choices Safeway
has.

True. And in how many product areas do I think--and do _you_ think--the
buyers in Pasadena or New Jersey have made the optimum choice for you?
For those who have drunk the Trader Jonestown Kool-Aid, their "one
choice means less to worry about!" mantra sounds good.
For the rest of us, we favor many kinds of ketchup, of salsa, of canned
tomatoes, of potatoes, of pancake syrup.
"But, but, Trader Guido (a minwage newbie 22-year-old office worker in
Hackensack, NJ) has selected the canned plum tomatoes from Botswan as
our preferred Trader Guido canned tomatoes for this purchasing period!"
--Tim May

Tim who can't get any fact correct - the buyers are in Monrovia CA. They never
were in Pasadena either. South Pasadena once.

[Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply]

Post by Tim May
It's just plain blissninny magical thinking to automatically impute the
cause to "the Germans taking over" or to "corporatization."

My thoughts were that it was a demonstration of the old proverb, "The
best fertilizer for a vineyard is the footsteps of the owner."

[Golden California Girls]

Post by Tim May

Post by Golden California Girls

Post by Steve Pope

Post by Samantha Hill - take out TRASH to reply

Post by Tim May
That happened in 1979. So much for it being a recent causal connection.

Oh, wow, I had *no* idea it happened so long ago. For some reason, I
was under the impression that it happened in the 90s sometime.

My recollection is that the acquisition of TJ's happened many
years before the German owners stepped in to actively manage it.

For many years after the purchase Joe Coulombe Sr ran the chain. When he
retired in 1988 that is when it changed for the worse.

Silly comments. Had TJ's stayed at anything remotely resembling its
1980s form it would be even more dismissed today than it is. The TJ's
prior to the early 90s were tiny, tiny, tiny stores.
The main problem I have with TJ's today is that even their 20,000
square foot footprint stores are tiny compared to the choiced in 50,000
square foot Safeways and 60,000 square foot Whole Foods stores.
Four kinds of overly salty salsa, compared to hundred of kinds at
Safeway. One single kind of horseradish, Marzetta's, in one size,
compared to the choice at Safeway of Beaver, Boar's Head, Kraft,
Marzetta, and others. In different styles (fresh-grated, creamed). I
rest my case.
The things they do well, such as frozen seafood, juices, and some
wines, they do well. But no longer are they the sole purveyor of
"imported" items. All of their competitors now carry items from around
the world. And usually with a far wider selection.
Their edge was back when Kroger/Ralph's/Publix/Safeway bought mainly
from American producers like Del Monte, Kraft, Dean, and Dole. This
edge has been lost as all grocery stores have diversified.
It's just plain blissninny magical thinking to automatically impute the
cause to "the Germans taking over" or to "corporatization."
What are you people, children?
I know, Osama voters.

Tim, why are you wasting time trying to buy salsa at TJ's or even a Safeways?
(And since when is salsa the sole determination of a good place to shop?) If
you want good salsa go to a carnicera! Oh I forgot, you are terrified of brown
skins and are convinced you would be shot to death or worse if you went anywhere
near one.

[Steve Pope]

Post by Golden California Girls
Tim, why are you wasting time trying to buy salsa at TJ's or even a Safeways?
(And since when is salsa the sole determination of a good place to shop?) If
you want good salsa go to a carnicera!

I do sometimes by dixie-cups of house-made salsa at the
local Mexican grocery. The only problem is an apparent huge
sodium level (there is no ingredients list, much less nutritional
information, but the sodium is there).

Jarred/tubbed salsa at local Mexican grocers seems to be the
same items as sold in anglo grocery stores. Perhaps that is
different in L.A.

Steve

[Geoff Miller]

I do sometimes by dixie-cups of house-made salsa at the local
Mexican grocery. The only problem is an apparent huge sodium
level (there is no ingredients list, much less nutritional
information, but the sodium is there).

Most people don't eat enough salsa at one time to take in a
significant amount of sodium from it. It's a *condiment,*
fercrissakes. If I did, I'd be more concerned about eating
all those tortilla chips than I would about the salsa.

Yesterday I baked a cake. I used a stick of butter and three
eggs. Am I worried about cholesterol? Of coure not, because
I'm not planning on eating the thing all at once.



Geoff

--
"Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and a moderate
Muslim walk into a bar..." -- Ann Coulter

[Steve Pope]

Post by Geoff Miller

I do sometimes by dixie-cups of house-made salsa at the local
Mexican grocery. The only problem is an apparent huge sodium
level (there is no ingredients list, much less nutritional
information, but the sodium is there).

Most people don't eat enough salsa at one time to take in a
significant amount of sodium from it. It's a *condiment,*
fercrissakes.

You never make chile verde I take it. It requires at least
a cup of green salsa to make a 2-person serving, perhaps 12
ounces.

Steve

[Geoff Miller]

Steve Pope <***@speedymail.org> writes:

: Most people don't eat enough salsa at one time to take in a
: significant amount of sodium from it. It's a *condiment,*
: fercrissakes.

Post by Steve Pope
You never make chile verde I take it. It requires at least
a cup of green salsa to make a 2-person serving, perhaps 12
ounces.

I've never heard of salsa being eaten in discrete servings.
In my experience, it's something that's poured into a bowl
in random quantities at the discretion of the eater.



Geoff

--
"Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and a moderate
Muslim walk into a bar..." -- Ann Coulter

[Steve Pope]

Post by Geoff Miller
: Most people don't eat enough salsa at one time to take in a
: significant amount of sodium from it. It's a *condiment,*
: fercrissakes.

Post by Steve Pope
You never make chile verde I take it. It requires at least
a cup of green salsa to make a 2-person serving, perhaps 12
ounces.

I've never heard of salsa being eaten in discrete servings.
In my experience, it's something that's poured into a bowl
in random quantities at the discretion of the eater.

So now you have heard differently.

Steve

[Geoff Miller]

Steve Pope <***@speedymail.org> writes:

: I've never heard of salsa being eaten in discrete servings.
: In my experience, it's something that's poured into a bowl
: in random quantities at the discretion of the eater.

Post by Steve Pope
So now you have heard differently.

And I don't believe it. Either this thing you mentioned falls
outside the bounds of what I (and I'd wager, most people) think
of as "salsa," or you're engaging in that time-honored Usenet
practice known as "making things up as you go along."



Geoff

--
"Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and a moderate
Muslim walk into a bar..." -- Ann Coulter

[Steve Pope]

Post by Geoff Miller
: I've never heard of salsa being eaten in discrete servings.
: In my experience, it's something that's poured into a bowl
: in random quantities at the discretion of the eater.

Post by Steve Pope
So now you have heard differently.

And I don't believe it.

No wonder your worldview is skewed; you arbitrarily omit
datapoints.

Post by Geoff Miller
Either this thing you mentioned falls
outside the bounds of what I (and I'd wager, most people) think
of as "salsa," or you're engaging in that time-honored Usenet
practice known as "making things up as you go along."

Or you could just look at recipes on jars of salsa, in Mexican
cookbooks, etc.

Steve

[Geoff Miller]

Steve Pope <***@speedymail.org> writes:

: And I don't believe it.

Post by Steve Pope
No wonder your worldview is skewed; you arbitrarily omit
datapoints.

And I'm a Republican; you forgot that. (Or maybe you just
shot your wad, GOP-wise, with your earlier "Everything from
oil prices to "ring around the collar" to the heartbreak of
psoriasis is the Republicans' fault" mini-diatribe.)

Post by Steve Pope
Or you could just look at recipes on jars of salsa, in Mexican
cookbooks, etc.

The mere fact that salsa comes in jars supports my contention
that serving sizes of salsa are arbitrary. A "serving" is how
much I feel like eating, and by implication, how much I choose
to pour out of the jar and into a bowl.



Geoff

--
"Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and a moderate
Muslim walk into a bar..." -- Ann Coulter

[Steve Pope]

Post by Geoff Miller
The mere fact that salsa comes in jars supports my contention
that serving sizes of salsa are arbitrary.

But this fact does not preclude an entire jar being used
in a recipe.

Nor does the salt content, for many people, but it's a problem
for some people.

Steve

[Veronique]

Post by Steve Pope

Post by Geoff Miller
: Most people don't eat enough salsa at one time to take in a
: significant amount of sodium from it. It's a *condiment,*
: fercrissakes.

Post by Steve Pope
You never make chile verde I take it. It requires at least
a cup of green salsa to make a 2-person serving, perhaps 12
ounces.

I've never heard of salsa being eaten in discrete servings.
In my experience, it's something that's poured into a bowl
in random quantities at the discretion of the eater.

So now you have heard differently.

Even if you don't make Chile Verde, a half cup portion doesn't seem
outrageous, even poured into a bowl and dipped out chip by chip. Or
ladled onto a serving of enchiladas or nachos (or maybe I just hang
out with people who consume salsa in quantity.)


V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep

[Steve Fenwick]

Post by Geoff Miller

I do sometimes by dixie-cups of house-made salsa at the local
Mexican grocery. The only problem is an apparent huge sodium
level (there is no ingredients list, much less nutritional
information, but the sodium is there).

Most people don't eat enough salsa at one time to take in a
significant amount of sodium from it. It's a *condiment,*
fercrissakes. If I did, I'd be more concerned about eating
all those tortilla chips than I would about the salsa.

One bag of chips, one bottle (or tub) of salsa, and several bottles of
Reed's, along with a good book, makes for a nice summer weekend
afternoon. But it's a lot of sodium.

Post by Geoff Miller
Yesterday I baked a cake. I used a stick of butter and three
eggs. Am I worried about cholesterol? Of coure not, because
I'm not planning on eating the thing all at once.

You're just not trying hard enough.

Steve

[Tim May]

Post by Golden California Girls

Post by Tim May
The main problem I have with TJ's today is that even their 20,000
square foot footprint stores are tiny compared to the choiced in 50,000
square foot Safeways and 60,000 square foot Whole Foods stores.
Four kinds of overly salty salsa, compared to hundred of kinds at
Safeway. One single kind of horseradish, Marzetta's, in one size,
compared to the choice at Safeway of Beaver, Boar's Head, Kraft,
Marzetta, and others. In different styles (fresh-grated, creamed). I
rest my case.

Tim, why are you wasting time trying to buy salsa at TJ's or even a Safeways?
(And since when is salsa the sole determination of a good place to shop?) If
you want good salsa go to a carnicera! Oh I forgot, you are terrified of brown
skins and are convinced you would be shot to death or worse if you went anywhere
near one.

It was to illustrate a point. You know, science.

Same as with the horseradish point. Five different brands of
horseradish, in multiple styles, at most supermarkets, versus just one
little jar of Mezzetta brand horseradish at TJ's.

"We pick what we like so you don't have to make a choice!" -- Our Motto

As for Mexican market salsa, supermarkets have all of the standard
jarred and canned brands (and maybe many of the refrigerated tubs--I
haven't checked).

As I already said, I like La Victoria Medium. I don't want the
refrigerated tub kind.


--Tim May

[Steve Pope]

Post by Tim May
Same as with the horseradish point. Five different brands of
horseradish, in multiple styles, at most supermarkets, versus just one
little jar of Mezzetta brand horseradish at TJ's.
"We pick what we like so you don't have to make a choice!" -- Our Motto

TJ's (some of them) will have (sometimes) Fred's Horseradish which
is one of the best there is. No metabisulfite, no cream or other
dilutants.

With Fred's you don't need any other horseradish.

They also have kool-aid.

Steve

[JXStern]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 02:32:34 GMT, Golden California Girls

Post by Golden California Girls
For many years after the purchase Joe Coulombe Sr ran the chain. When he
retired in 1988 that is when it changed for the worse.

For the better!

In the old TJ's, you had about a 50% chance of getting stale or worse
food for your bargains. The new management changed that, and more
recently focused on trendy and natural foods, hard to find a lot of
chemical additives in *anything* at a TJs.

As for the size of the stores and limited selection, TJ's does 2x or
3x the dollars per square foot of supermarkets. That's a big deal,
about like having a car that gets 90mpg, so who's going to complain
about the selection of colors it comes in? I wonder how their new
attempt at fresh meat and produce is doing, raises the value
proposition per square inch, but it's much tougher than packaged
goods. Since they seem to have expanded it again recently, I guess
it's going well.

TJ's is a friggin' gold mine for the owners, and SHOULD be a model for
the big chains to copy, but noooooo.

I'd also like to see a super-TJ's - though just what they could do
with more room, I know not.

J.

[Ken Rudolph]

Post by JXStern
TJ's is a friggin' gold mine for the owners, and SHOULD be a model for
the big chains to copy, but noooooo.
I'd also like to see a super-TJ's - though just what they could do
with more room, I know not.

That's sort of the concept of Fresh and Easy, which is an English
chain which is attempting to break into L.A. They just opened up
their store in Hollywood in the old Galaxy monstrosity building. I
like their concept, and the few products I've purchased seemed to be
on a par with TJs in price and quality. But the store seems more
sterile and less interestingly quirky and original somehow, even
though they have a larger number of items and a larger footprint.
I'll remain a TJ aficionado (which I've been since the'70s in any case).

--Ken Rudolph

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Tim May
Personally, I've found TJ's way too limiting in selection. The nutshell
I have a strong suspicion that the Soviet-style selection choices of
both of these store chains--TJ's and Costco--are going to have to
change if they are to compete with the newer and much larger
supermarkets and with upscale competitors such as Whole Foods.

No. The Trader Joe's model is a small store filled with a limited
range of bargain-priced products of high quality, many of which are
private label. The Safeway model is a huge store filled with a variety
of over-priced products of low to moderate quality, many of which are
private label. The Whole Foods model is a large store filled with a
variety of over-priced products of high quality, except that their
private label range is both high quality and bargain-priced. The
Costco model is an aircraft hangar filled with a limited range of
bargain-priced products packed in huge quantity, many of which are
private label. The Costco difference is that many products are
available for a short time only, a "Hit or Miss" or TJ Maxx model.

[Ian MacLure]

Tim May <***@removethis.got.net> wrote in news:230220081134318602%***@removethis.got.net:

[snip]

Post by Tim May
I have a strong suspicion that the Soviet-style selection choices of
both of these store chains--TJ's and Costco--are going to have to
change if they are to compete with the newer and much larger
supermarkets and with upscale competitors such as Whole Foods.

Ermm, say what?
Costco and Whole Paycheck ( or <shudder>Bristol Farms</shudder> )
don't occupy the same market niche. The Whole Paycheck at
Rosecrans & Sepulveda in El Segundo is about the size of a Costco
but there the resemblance ends.

IBM

[Tim May]

Post by Ian MacLure
[snip]

Post by Tim May
I have a strong suspicion that the Soviet-style selection choices of
both of these store chains--TJ's and Costco--are going to have to
change if they are to compete with the newer and much larger
supermarkets and with upscale competitors such as Whole Foods.

Ermm, say what?
Costco and Whole Paycheck ( or <shudder>Bristol Farms</shudder> )
don't occupy the same market niche. The Whole Paycheck at
Rosecrans & Sepulveda in El Segundo is about the size of a Costco
but there the resemblance ends.

I said the store chains TJ's and Costco. When I mentioned Whole Foods
I didn't say it's small. I said "upscale."

My area, within driving distance of San Jose, has the second-largest
Whole Foods in the current universe, second only to one in Austin.

Your point?


"Errrmmm, say what?"

This "Errrmmm" nonsense, is it some kind of hacker/negro jargon?

Back in my kill file you go for another bunch of months.


--Tim May

[Ian MacLure]

Tim May <***@removethis.got.net> wrote in news:230220082322362052%***@removethis.got.net:

[snip]

Post by Tim May
This "Errrmmm" nonsense, is it some kind of hacker/negro jargon?

If it aggravates you to think so then yes it is hacker/negro
jargon although no one has ever mistaken me for someone
with African ancestry.

Post by Tim May
Back in my kill file you go for another bunch of months.

I am in Timmay's killfile?
Where does this stand in the pantheon of net.achievement.
Is it a higher hono(u)r than having him drop an F-bomb
on you?

IBM

[Queenie]

        I am in Timmay's killfile?
        Where does this stand in the pantheon of net.achievement.
        Is it a higher hono(u)r than having him drop an F-bomb
        on you?

Just above, but not quite a "you need killing"-level accomplishment.

~Queenie

[c***@ymoctl.com]

Post by Queenie

Post by Ian MacLure
I am in Timmay's killfile?
Where does this stand in the pantheon of net.achievement.
Is it a higher hono(u)r than having him drop an F-bomb
on you?

Just above, but not quite a "you need killing"-level accomplishment.
~Queenie

And in between those are the "going to burn your house"threats. I
heard that Tim got a workout recently. He was walking down the street
and saw a Black police officer.

[Ian B MacLure]

Post by Queenie

        I am in Timmay's killfile?
        Where does this stand in the pantheon of net.achievement.
        Is it a higher hono(u)r than having him drop an F-bomb
        on you?

Just above, but not quite a "you need killing"-level accomplishment.

Thank you.
It gives me something to aspire to.

IBM

[Geoff Miller]

Post by Tim May
Some things Trader Joe's does very well. The problem is that
I don't want to buy a few things at Trader Joe's and then head
over to a normal supermarket.

Why not? It isn't as though you have the time constraints that
most people (ObSitch: "working stiffs") have.

My home-provisioning M.O. is to go to Costco and get whatever I
can there (chiefly meat, vegetables, dairy, and liquor), then
stop at Nob Hill on my way home to fill in the gaps on my shop-
ping list -- things that Costco either doesn't carry, or doesn't
offer in quantities that are practical for a single person.

Trader Joe's (like the local hippie stores, New Leaf and Staff
Of Life) is more of an ad-hoc thing with me. I'll go there
every week or two on my way home from work if I'd neglected to
pull anything out of the freezer for that night's dinner. I
don't consider it a good place to do full-scale shopping because
it's usually crowded and always has a limited selection.



Geoff

--
"Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and a moderate
Muslim walk into a bar..." -- Ann Coulter

[Steve Fenwick]

Post by Tim May
I have a strong suspicion that the Soviet-style selection choices of
both of these store chains--TJ's and Costco--are going to have to
change if they are to compete with the newer and much larger
supermarkets and with upscale competitors such as Whole Foods.

Whole Foods seems to be more in the TJ mode than in the
Safeway/Andronico's mode. Way too many items where the only or
predominant choice is their "365" house brand. Fine if that's what you
want, but with not as much floor space for groceries as, say,
Andronico's, WF falls into the same trap as TJ.

Steve